11-07-2009, 04:30
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#481 | |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
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Quote:
This upgrade implements bots features right into the game. For years, we've been told that scripts and bots were unfair to those not using them. Yet at that time scripts and bots were free for all, easy to install, and there is a vast community of "cheaters" ready to help anyone install and use such bots. So bots were free, everyone could use them, still they were banned because they were unfair Travian Games took almost every features from bots, and used them into the game. But to use those features, players now need to pay large amount of golds. Could you please tell me how those features are now harmless, or how they are not unfair to those who can't afford gold ? When everyone could use them, they were unfair, and now that only an "elite" (based on money) can use them, they suddendly become ok ? (To quote Queen's Freddy Mercury : "It's a kind of magic") Can't you see what's happening ? Bots used to be considered by many players like "cheats", because those bots offered features that were not implemented in the game. But now all it comes down to is the choice between paying or not paying for the same thing And all it comes down to is a sort of "software piracy". Lots of players resent cheating, because it spoils the game. But among those, there are very few who won't download movies, music, games, and so on, for free when they get the occasion. And since the bots' features are present in the game, it's no longer cheating. So using a bot to play Travian will become as "ok" for many players, as downloading a music album when they don't have the money to buy it. What Travian Games really did is take the "cheating" notion out of the bots, and therefore they have opened the way for widespread use of those bots But let me finish by being a bit cynical. Travian Games does not take ideas or suggestions as far as game developpement is concerned. Still they ripped many bots apart to come up with this 3.6 If I were to be very cynical, I'd say that all of those cheaters that you, multihunters and staff, have banned for months, were, in fact betatesting the 3.6 features, and that Travian Games got themselves a source code that was thoroughly and extensively tested without breaking a sweat (except your's) Most features of 3.6 are present because they have proved to be popular ... not among the regular community, but among the cheaters' and the unpopular features are there to counterbalance (clumsily) the other features. And that's just plain old sad |
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11-07-2009, 06:44
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#482 | ||
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Axerider
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 430
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11-07-2009, 06:47
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#483 | |
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Natarian Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: looking for the old forum
Posts: 1,253
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Quote:
press go and have everything done for me ?? As in constant raiding 24/7 movement of resource 24/7 hell the bots even do your parties for you ?? No ... So i dont think you know what you are talking about The main part of Bots is they will raid for you 24/7 .. They will send out 1000s of raids for you while you can be off working reading hell go on holiday for 3 weeks .. The bots can even read you mail .. I dont see any of theres feature in Travian .. Such a shame 
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11-07-2009, 07:29
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#484 |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
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Just my thots...
Well...
I spawned on a classic server recently, and was amazed at how different the dynamic of having oases that could be annexed (or not in this case!) actually made to the game. Then there is no heroes, artifacts... basically a similar, but different, game! That's essentially what we a are looking at here... a new travian era, as such. There will be servers running each major version, so it's not like players won't have the option to avoid the new rules and stick with what they prefer. And it is a trial server, so try before you cry... But here is my take on the whole Gold thing: When you play football, or any form of sport, you play by the same "rules". You can buy a pair of boots that give you better grip, but those boots will not give you the right to have a "head start" ahead of the whistle to get to the ball. Take Basketball for instance... can you "buy" the ability to shoot free-throws a foot closer to the basket? Chess... can you cough up $20 and start with 2 queens on the board? What I am essentially saying is, Gold advantages should add EASE of playability, and SLIGHT advantages, if at all... not major ones. I totally agree with taking out the 10% bonus to off/def... and i would support taking away the 25% bonus you can buy for res production. If players can utilise bots or spreadsheets or cropfinders etc external to the game, then the added advantage to an INGAME version of that should prove beneficial, and hence a playability advantage. Being able to manage in-game farming lists, that update in real time and not just every time the stat-server updates off the daily map dump, then wow, that IS a fair playability advantage. To me, good Gold advantages (and ones I would pay for myself) would be things like being able to schedule a troop movement at a specific time (eg for timing mass defences when you can't be online to send at specific times)... being able to repeat a raid/attack with a single click and confirmation. How about being able to set a marketplace offer to automatically relist when the merchant returns from a trade. Gold should allow you to play competitively and still have a real life. But you SHOULD be able to play competitively WITHOUT spending on gold... |
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11-07-2009, 07:58
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#485 | |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
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Quote:
4 movements per Rally Point level severely limits the "auto-farm" features of bots And that's exactly my point when I say that 3.6 will see many players resort to bots/scripts Let me explain further : since the auto farm features are useless, what are the other features of bots ? - program a queue of buildings/ressources fields to be constructed as soon as there are enough ressources => that's exactly what Master Builder does Ingame - queue/loop upgrades (armory, blacksmith, etc ) => this feature has just been implemented in Travian - sort offers in the market place depending on ressources, or even exchange rate => feature of PLUS - schedule ressource transfers between villages => Trade routes, or 3 times round trip of merchants Plus those scripts have many interface changes, such as direct link to immediate build, direct link to NPC ... guess what that's just been taken into the game ... Since the "raid like crazy while I'm gone" possibility has been disabled by the new rules, those bots only fullfill the "gameplay" features from the new Gold Club (master builder, trade routes, Combat report enhancement, upgrade loops, etc) So if it only becomes a matter of paying or not, many people will be tempted to use scripts/bots The danger here is that bots, as you said, can do many things, and there is no telling what they might do in the near future. But as of right now, with 3.6, most of them will seem harmless enough for a vast population of player to try them out ... and when you begin to use those, you don't stop ... even if, by using the new features you, without noticing, fall on the dark side of the force ... As I said, in their effort to come up with this version, Travian Games has taken away from the bots all that gave them a "cheating" look. Rules forbidding a large number of raids rendered the main feature of bots useless (auto raid/farm), hence leaving the bots with only the very same features offered in the new Travian version This could even make the bots look friendly ... And that's the huge danger, because we'll soon see players found new villages, entirely automated, with a "super master builder" which will queue and construct as scheduled and programmed, as soon as ressources are avalaible Imagine your average player. The game permits him to queue 3 buildings, laying golds on the table, without the required ressources. And then there is this bot which permits him to queue an infinite number of buildings, absolutely free, without the required ressources. Do you think this player's gonna pay for what he can get free ? and do you think he will have the feeling that he cheats ? No, the only second thought he could have would be that because of his not paying, some Travian Games Executive might only be able to buy 2 brand new cars this year instead of 3 ... Bottomline is that this upgrade is very far from being a way to reduce the bots/scripts usage, on the contrary but let me be cynical once again ... maybe these changes are designed to stimulate bots developpers, so that they implement features that could be (would I dare to say "stolen") for 3.7 or even 4.0 You know it wouldn't be a first. Some very important OS editor (starting with a Micro and ending in Soft) "borrowed" most of their base code for MS-DOS and windows and made people pay for what was once free ... paranoid ? maybe ^^ 
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11-08-2009, 14:36
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#486 |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10
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bots or no bots doesn't matter.
that's what duals for XD most top accounts are usually NON BOT. well that's what i've seen. i ahvne't seen much of those top accounts using bots to do everything for them XD anyway this BOTs or not. i'm telling u travian makers. if u dont' do something about this 3.6 server u r gonna lose lots of players 
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11-08-2009, 18:31
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#487 |
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Thorned Warrior
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38
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[QUOTE=Tschena;1479196]Dear players,
[*]Returning troops immediate callback (and they return immediately to your village) cost 3 gold (only NEW servers). This only affects returning troops. And only those without catapults and chiefs of any tribe. Those can not be called back immediately. Additional, the callback is not possible if the village is beeing under attack/raid hitting within the next 3 hours. <-- This complete feature might be dropped and is therefore only a testing feature at the moment! How can we lock the attackers returning? This is ridiculous. |
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11-08-2009, 18:32
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#488 |
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Thorned Warrior
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38
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And also Rally point rule is so ridiculous too. how can we send fakes with new rules
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11-08-2009, 19:39
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#489 |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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A few points I like to make, also from my experience so far with com10:
1. I started 1 or 2 days late, for raiding purposes. I do not follow the quests and thus have been building clubbies with my resources. Point is, within a day after I started sending troops out, I got nerfed by the RP restriction already. I sent 3 troops to each of my targets (5 hours+ out) and got full reports on them, but hey, I just sit here idly with troops waiting because I don't have an RP lvl 2. Now I build it, lo and behold, I can send out 8 raids. -.- Great, my game slows down my development as a Teuton, and my boss will actually like me being able to work more. 2. Captcha with a countdown time = good. Implement it with a counter of 30+ minutes at least. However, do implement a tickbox that will let you give in that captcha before the time limit is over, so you can set up those attacks and fakes and so it doesn't nerf that snipe, dodge or same second counterattack you were planning. 3. It has been said TG wants to "make the game more attractive for new players who are now being farmed as soon as they get out of BP (or once they've grown, etc.)". Indeed, make it more fun for them. I'm a cold hearted Teuton raider as long as my farms complain, beg me to stop attacking, etc. etc. Instead, I hardly ever hear a farm saying "Hey dude, I know it's a war game, but I'm new and you seem to be doing great. Can you give me some pointers as to the mechanics of the game and some advice on how to play?". Believe me, I've helped them on several occasions. I even offered a complete alliance who had dedicated 2 threads on how to kill me to get them on track and show them the ropes of how to coordinate and work together, once they asked. My duals (yes, I've had them. same timezone, different timezone, both worked for me) did not like it, but I did do it. Some of them played that server to learn, and another after having had advice to play for real. Yes, some even ended up in the top 500 on their first serious server. Now you say that you don't want to set up a special server for these people, alright, but in WoW, which btw would save me about $90/month, the same thing happens. Players learn the hard way, or ask for help on how to play. The latter will keep playing, no matter what. Those who delete probably wouldn't have bought gold anyway. There are several ways of making servers for less experienced players, like with the RP limitations, which won't attract the experienced players as it limits us too much, and they can get to learn it their way. Put in some dedicated staff who don't mind giving some advice on how to play the game, snipe, coordinate, etc, and players will actually commend you for being newb (see I didn't use n00b?) friendly. I for one, would likely volunteer to do such stuff as I like helping players and alliances if they show they are willing to learn. 4. About the fact of alliances migrating as a whole to a new server, I can relate to that. I lead TB on com3 and we migrated with a whole lot of players from the old com3 to the new one. We want to stick together because we feel like we are a family. However, it's completely the mindset of the alliance what happens. We are there to dominate our quadrant, yes, but we do give newbs (yes, they like to learn, n00bs do not) a chance. Many of our 2, 3 or 4 server veterans give them advice until they are ready to join. We have players on our forums offering sitter services to give advice on how to build up their villages/armies according to the way the one who asks for it is playing. We are newb friendly, for we know how important they will be later on. The alliances matter is one that is totally irrelevant to any of the issues with new players. 5. Yes, I do like a lot of the new options, but I also agree with some voices I heard that Gold should only buy you things that make life easier, not give you advantages. Sure, I use Gold and use the 25% bonus. I do it because I can. Does not mean I think it is fair. Would TG go back to only cosmetic stuff (links, account overview, etc. etc.) I'd still get the Gold, because it makes my life easier, but not play the game for me. 6. The instant recall seems unfair for counter attacks, but can easily be cancelled. Make sure that before the attacker hits, you have fakes going out landing every 2.5-3 hours until his troops are back home so the aggressor can't use the function. Then counter him and he'll be able to do jack sh*t against your attack save for defending (or sending them off in one second, in case you had a really bad timing). 7. I'm a software tester for an IT company. You want to see us testing these new features and want to know what we think about them being imbalanced, or whether something is good or not, etc. My question is: how can we give accurate information on imbalanced gameplay, if we can not see how the people we interact (attack, defend against, dodge, etc) with are using the new implemented features? How can we decide before we play the test server or DURING us playing on the test server, whether or not this imbalances the game? If you don't give information whether my "farm" used autododge or not during my attacks in the past 24 hours or whether he did it himself, I can not say whether the autododge feature is imbalancing. Sure, if only 2 or 3 of 50 farms are using it... soit. I can live with that. If, on the other hand, I see that a large percentage of them is using the function to keep their army alive mainly because I am online more, can send more raids, I think it starts to be unbalancing. There are sitter options and the LEGAL ability to dual in this game. Travian is not only a wargame, but also has an active community. Use it to get active sitters or find a nice dual you like, use your alliance to help you with this, whichever works best. I think that this is, for a test, a badly performed one, even though I'm taking part of it. If not for giving constructive feedback on ALL of the function, then at least for some functions and on the way the test is being conducted. Information is key for every test you do, especially if it involves testing several possibilities on usage of functions that can be giving an advantage to only one of both sides, without making up for it on the other side (which would actually give feedback to the other side and he'd know why an attack failed miserably or why his army died, etc.). Edit: some grammar and word issues in the last paragraph.
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com3: Triumphant com7: Project X Last edited by Goat; 11-08-2009 at 19:47. |
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11-08-2009, 21:16
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#490 | |
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Pikeman
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
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Quote:
To be clear: 1) Are troops that currently are reinforcing another village included? 2) Are troops that currently are being held in captivity included? 3) Are ones troops from another village heading towards this village included (own reinforcements)? 4) Are others troops heading towards this village included? Personally I would like to see a "No" to all 4 scenarios. I'm afraid that there will be a "Yes" to 1) and 2) at least. But the worst thing would be to see a "Yes" to 3) and 4). It would be nice to hear you explain how you were thinking if you answer "Yes" to any of these. Thanks BR Dodo |
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