com10 start - travian version 3.6

[myk]

Originally Posted by ChiefOdie As I said, before, they need to do SOMETHING to keep the newbees around till they become addicted like the rest of us! The current model, while it works well for the veteran, is driving all their new business away (Don't tell me you don't farm any newbees spawning next to you till they delete!) By reducing the number of attacks you can have in motion, you are giving the newbees a chance to learn the game and decide if they really wish to play it (before they are farmed to death) As for it's effect on Bots, I don't see this eliminating them, but it will reduce their effectiveness... (And make them easier to detect) Enjoy Chief

I have to agree with Chief on this one. I'm currently on US5, and we are rapidly running out of active players. This is partly due to players not being able to join after the artifacts were released, but mainly because new players who survived until that point suddenly realized that their neighbors all had multiple chiefs in every village. The game has become so formulaic that if you don't start at the beginning of a server (or close to it) and know what you are doing, you will have a very difficult time making it to end game. Very, very few "new" players have made it this far, and we still have at least six weeks to the Natars' release.

Lallia, I like the idea of different servers for different levels of play. The lower the level of the server, the "easier" the Natars could be (lower atk/def values, fewer numbers) and fewer levels needed for the WW.

[ChiefOdie]

Originally Posted by myk The game has become so formulaic that if you don't start at the beginning of a server (or close to it) and know what you are doing, you will have a very difficult time making it to end game. Very, very few "new" players have made it this far, and we still have at least six weeks to the Natars' release.

Even worst than that, when you have complete alliances join formed and take over a quadrant (e.g. Legion, Infamous, C.E.C., Berserk, Deathwave...) if you are NOT part of that alliance, you are a farm from the beginning of the server!

Originally Posted by myk Lallia, I like the idea of different servers for different levels of play. The lower the level of the server, the "easier" the Natars could be (lower atk/def values, fewer numbers) and fewer levels needed for the WW.

This would work only if you could find a way of eliminating (or nurfing) anyone with more than 1 server experience, otherwise, the experienced players would join and do what they are doing on the regular servers (Some players are so addicted that they are playing on national servers where they don't even speak the language!!!)

Enjoy
Chief

[Celice]

Originally Posted by ChiefOdie No, they are answering concerns by new players that are getting mercilessly farmed by those of us who have been playing the game for a while.

that answer already exists, and is called Imperion. TG is rich enough to create a second game, similar to travian but less "war-oriented". Why not improving Imperion in this way, and promote it ? it should be much more efficient than killing travian's core... i.e. no bash, chiefs, catapults and no limit to number of towns.
No matter the way you think about it, removing one principle of a game (which is not in a desperate situation) is a bad idea.

[Celice]

Originally Posted by ChiefOdie Even worst than that, when you have complete alliances join formed and take over a quadrant (e.g. Legion, Infamous, C.E.C., Berserk, Deathwave...) if you are NOT part of that alliance, you are a farm from the beginning of the server!

that's a problem of mentality. I guess it's the same thing in every country : most "best" players says they are looking for challenge, but actually just want to have the better partners and farm less active neighbours easily. That's why nowadays, more and more, big allys are prepared even before the servers start.
Modifying the RP and giving more power to gold won't change this. On the contrary, while seeing that raiding will be less efficient and newbies have advantages, more big players will be merciless and get along with other good players. Maybe some new player will survive longer, yes, that's right... but when they will be targetted... good luck to survive. Because they won't have any pity or casual manner to expect.

Maybe TG can promote another kind of plays, medals for little alliances, more natars, more wonders possibles, promoting wars between big allys, I don't know... several ideas can/should be studied, instead of deeply modifying the game.
Or even (I know you'll all scream, but I say it anyway :P) forbid duals. Less activity = less farming of newbs = skill even more important = bots much more visible. Without killing the game itself.
First v2 will be settled 10 days after the start instead of 8 days, and so what ?


addition :

Originally Posted by ChiefOdie Limit the number of Bots used (or, at the very least, limit their impact on the rest of us)

well, I just can't order my ideas as I see so many counterarguments... How can such a limitation limit the use of bots ?

I guess it won't be difficult for a bot to send 4 raids on the most profitable farms. And when there are "too many" troops, raise a warning "upgrade the rally point". Then go again with 8 raids all day long. then upgrade the RP at the good time. Etc. That's quite basic computation.
Finally, the bot will send 75-80 raids permanently, what no ordinary account can do, even played 25 hours a day and 8 days a week.

On the contrary, today, a human can take some "illogical" decisions (from a computer point of vue), like "what if I'll go kill this 1k spears and 3 chiefs with my swordmen, and then the player may become inactive"... such decisions can partially balance the over-activity provided by bots.

With the RP limitation, no more thinking... every player will just raid "bot-like", by sending troops on its profitable farms until they delete, and them farm another one. That's what you call "more complex strategy" ?

One point where you're right : RP limitation will stifle the difference between bots and 24/7 accounts, as 80 raids permanently is quite easy to reach. But are such accounts the majority ? and are they to help, as they have already a huge advantage in the game ? majority of the 3.6 changes did not seems to be designed for that.
However, for "humans" (non 24/7) accounts, limiting amount of troop movements is worse. Humans are able to send as many raids as they want when they connect. So potentially, all their troops are raiding, after each connexion, and it works pretty well. With the limitation, when connecting, the player will send 80 attacks. whoa meaning he will raid much less than before, and much less than a 24/7 player or a bot. Difference will increase, not decrease.
So... this will not even limit their impact. With the limitation, a bot will raid maybe 2M ressources a week instead of 10M, a 24/7 account will raid 1M9 instead of 9M... but humans will raid 500k instead of 5M, so...


[/preach]

[Founders]

Originally Posted by Nunu Wauw... take away farming from the game... dodge attacks automaticly... make returning troops return immediatly... It's sad to see everything the game administrators (or whoever controls these updates) cares about is taking even MORE money from the players, instead of putting money into improving the game... Could be used to get better multihunters for instance, so players won't get bad punishments for being better than others... It's like all the functions of a bot has been ripped off and implemented in the game, and thereby automating it, exept that they require tons of extra gold every time these extremely imbalanced features are used. Making the game a question of who has the most money rather than who are the most skilled and dedicated players.... And don't say this is to prevent cheaters from cheating... Now many more players will start cheating because that's the only way they will have any chance of trying to keep up with the rich kids using these new gold functions... Looks like it'll soon be time to leave this game for good... Thumbs down. //Nunu

What he Nunu Said, is spot on.

[Lone Soldier]

ban dualssssssssssssssssssss

[ChiefOdie]

Originally Posted by Celice Or even (I know you'll all scream, but I say it anyway :P) forbid duals. Less activity = less farming of newbs = skill even more important = bots much more visible. Without killing the game itself. First v2 will be settled 10 days after the start instead of 8 days, and so what ?

Good luck making that one fly :P

Originally Posted by Celice well, I just can't order my ideas as I see so many counterarguments... How can such a limitation limit the use of bots ?

By making them easier to spot...

The way some of these bots work (the most popular ones...) the ability to constantly send out raids make them difficult to spot right now, but if you limit the number of raids, they stick out like a sore thumb.

Originally Posted by Celice I guess it won't be difficult for a bot to send 4 raids on the most profitable farms. And when there are "too many" troops, raise a warning "upgrade the rally point". Then go again with 8 raids all day long. then upgrade the RP at the good time. Etc. That's quite basic computation. Finally, the bot will send 75-80 raids permanently, what no ordinary account can do, even played 25 hours a day and 8 days a week.

This is why I believe this part of the limitation will be a failure, but till they play-test it on com10, we won't know.

Originally Posted by Celice On the contrary, today, a human can take some "illogical" decisions (from a computer point of vue), like "what if I'll go kill this 1k spears and 3 chiefs with my swordmen, and then the player may become inactive"... such decisions can partially balance the over-activity provided by bots. With the RP limitation, no more thinking... every player will just raid "bot-like", by sending troops on its profitable farms until they delete, and them farm another one. That's what you call "more complex strategy" ?

The strategy comes in Target selection...

As trapped troops count against your raiding count, this will make Gauls even less likely to be attacked with small forces...

Originally Posted by Celice One point where you're right : RP limitation will stifle the difference between bots and 24/7 accounts, as 80 raids permanently is quite easy to reach. But are such accounts the majority ? and are they to help, as they have already a huge advantage in the game ? majority of the 3.6 changes did not seems to be designed for that. However, for "humans" (non 24/7) accounts, limiting amount of troop movements is worse. Humans are able to send as many raids as they want when they connect. So potentially, all their troops are raiding, after each connexion, and it works pretty well. With the limitation, when connecting, the player will send 80 attacks. whoa meaning he will raid much less than before, and much less than a 24/7 player or a bot. Difference will increase, not decrease. So... this will not even limit their impact. With the limitation, a bot will raid maybe 2M ressources a week instead of 10M, a 24/7 account will raid 1M9 instead of 9M... but humans will raid 500k instead of 5M, so... [/preach]

Again, making them the Bot users easier to spot.

This will also improves the effectiveness of counter-attacks as, if I am following you home and you have all your attacks allocated (but not all your troops) I get to kill more troops than I would have with unlimited attacks (Benefit to those like me who get mad hero levels early game due to counter-attacks!)

While I don't know if it will be as much of a win as the developers re hoping for, I still believe we need a LOT of play-testers to find all the moths in the system.

Enjoy
Chief

P.S.
Yes, that link points to the 1st actual computer bug found by RAdm Grace Hopper.

[Lallia]

Originally Posted by Lone Soldier ban dualssssssssssssssssssss

Banning Duals will not do anything. Whether you have a good dual or just a good sitter makes no difference.
Besides, if there is such a hue and a cry about the cost of gold..if you share the account with someone it makes it more affordable.

[Brooke]

i think the 4 movements per rally point level is a horrible idea. that would make it really hard to raid, especially for the first couple weeks of the server. i dont use bots, but it would make things crappy for me, as especially early in game, ill have 300 plus movements from each city.

[wiiman119]

yeah, every thing is great except.....

the troop recall.....this is the most unfair thing this game has ever done...it gives people way to big of advantages and takes away skill and strategy...